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Whining/Humming noise still present after bearing change. Help please!! |
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mike_b
 
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  Member No: #4479
Joined: Jul 11 2008Location: Leeds |
Hi guys, I had my front wheel bearings changed this weekend (backs were done a few months back) as the was a pretty loud whining/humming noise most noticably between 14mph and 20mph but continued th be present whatever the speed. The bearings I had removed were past it, so when I took it out for the test drive i was pretty annoyed to discover that although the ride seemed to be quieter the noise was still present!! The noise changes with speed but does not alter when I change gear. I can be in 3rd or 4th or 5th or even neutral(free wheeling) and its still ever present. When I set off on the test run the abs light also came on and is still on. I have read previous threads about this. Could it be possible that I have been supplied with the wrong bearings? I believe that fitting a bearing with the incorrect number of magnetic poles would make the abs light come on but would it result in the car continuing to make the noise? Could there be any connection between the abs light being on and the noise? Could running the car on the previously duff bearings have damaged something else? I would also like to point out that whilst it is making the noise you can 'feel' it under your feed in the pedal assembly and also in the steering wheel. I also get pretty bad wheel wobble at 60mph which isn't down to unbalanced or buckled wheels as i have had them checked and tyres are pretty new. I thought before that this was being caused by the bad bearings? Im waiting to hook it up to a diagnostic to read the error codes for the abs, any help with the noise would be much appreciated!! ps Please dont say gearbox!! Thanks in advance!! |
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gmerry
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   Member No: #11625
Joined: Nov 30 2009Location: aberdeen |
Sounds a bit like differential bearings if you get the noise in 3rd, 4th, 5th and neutral. But then again could be any of the gearbox bearings. I would speak to a transmission specialist and ask them for options re overhaul of your own box (new bearings and sychromesh) or availability of a replacement box with say a years warranty on the box and the fitting job. If you are a cheapskate you could take a punt and replace the box with one from a scrappie. On the ABS warning light, there is a fair chance that the snap ring that holds the bearing in place has not been correctly fitted and is preventing the sensor from sitting close enough to the bearing seal. The seal on these bearings incorporates the magnetic poles. a work around solution is to cut off a little from the sensor housing. Alternatively, get the job done all over again. If its not the snap ring, it could be the abs sensor or wiring connector. The ABS sensors are quite cheap so it could be worth replacing this as part of the fault finding. Don't worry about the wrong bearing being fitted, I'm pretty sure there is only one type. PS, I'm sure I posted photos for all this. Regards G |
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gmerry
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Member No: #11625
Joined: Nov 30 2009Location: aberdeen |
On further reflection, there is a possibility you have a duff driveshaft. On the RHS, there is a steady bearing bolted to the back of the engine. If this is shot, this might be causing the wheel wobble and vibration you feel through the steering and pedals. I would start by tracking down and elminating the wheel wobble before looking at the gearbox. A new driveshaft will be cheaper than a gearbox job. PS, what torque were the axle nuts tightened to. How was the hub restrained when undoing the large axle nut (and retorquing the same). Regards G |
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mike_b
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Member No: #4479
Joined: Jul 11 2008Location: Leeds |
Hi G Sorry I re-read what I put and realised that what I put about the gears may have been a bit misleading. I was giving them as examples, in actual fact it makes the noise regardless of which gear is selected. Im waiting to see what error codes I get back before I go any further. Best to know if its both sides or just one that went wrong. I read somewhere on here that there are two types of bearings, one with about 28 poles and one with about 48 poles(this one for cars fitted with ESP whicj I dont have) but I have also seen one of your posts saying its the same bearing for both?! It was my brother who did the work for me, he is a qualified mechanic and did it at his workshop. I use him as it saves me a packet on labour costs!! He used a windy gun to remove and replace the hub nut. The car was in neutral though so there were no forces being put onto the gearbox. Would a duff driveshaft cause the noises that I am experiencing? I know it may be the gearbox but I just think if it were that then the noise would alter depending on which gear is selected and not to just the speed the wheels are turning? And this steady bearing, is this attached to the driveshaft or something completely different? I think the vibrations I am feeling are directly linked to the noise because they are quite a bit worse when the car is traveling between 14mph to 20mph which is when the noise is at its loudest. Thanks for your response!! |
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gmerry
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Member No: #11625
Joined: Nov 30 2009Location: aberdeen |
Mike, sort through the issues one at a time. 1/ Get the ABS sensors working - this will need a detailed inspection looking for the snap ring problem. The Fault Code reader won't solve the problem on its own. 2/ The source of the wobble needs to be tracked down and sorted. 3/ You can't possible set the torque on the new bearings using an windy gun. Get yourself a proper mechanic or give your brother a copy of the Citroen procedure available as a download on this site. (If you don't preload the bearings correctly you will trash the new bearings and the drive shafts). Also even with the gearbox in neutral, the shock from the windy gun will be transmitted through the differential which is always connected to the road wheels. ....tut tut 4/ The differential and bearings are connected to the wheels so any problems there will show up regardless of what gear you are in. PS, with your brother being a professional mechanic it's really up to him to make good on the job he has started and get to the bottom of the underlying problems. Regards G |
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Dave_Retired.
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 Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006Location: Northumberland |
You also need to check the 'droplinks' and the tyres. Flat spotted or uneven wear can cause all sorts of noises and vibrations Start with the tyres and work back through the suspension |
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PPP7
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 Member No: #135
Joined: Feb 25 2007Location: South Midlands |
How much tread is on your tyres and what model and size of tyre are you using? | ||||
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mike_b
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Member No: #4479
Joined: Jul 11 2008Location: Leeds |
Thanks G, im sure he will get to the bottom of it, I will have to tell him off for not setting the torque as he should!! Dave, I fitted now drop links not too long ago and they seem fine. Im pretty certain its not the wheels and tyres that are the problem, I have just had new tyres fitted on the front and had all four wheels balanced up. The noise and vibration is just too extreme for it to be the wheels. It was making the same noise before I had the tyres fitted on my steel wheels, although that was before I changed the bearings(which I though was the problem). Hamilton, Tyres are Fullrun HP199 215/35/19's with 8mm, and as mentioned above I was getting the same noise pre bearing change on my 195/65/15 michelins with 4-5mm Also noticed this morning whilst stuck in traffic that when the car is moving very slow (3-4mph) the humming noise isn't present yet but I can hear a kind of creaking sound(its a bit like the sound of a flat tyre). I presume that this then becomes the humming sound when I gather speed. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #11625
Joined: Nov 30 2009Location: aberdeen |
Hi, trying to make sure you are eliminating all the obvious issues here. You are running 19" wheels. Do these have the proper hub machining to guarantee concentricity on to the Citroen hubs or are you using adaptors? Any chance of putting the standard Citroen wheels back on to eliminate this as a cause of the wobble? Regards G |
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mike_b
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Member No: #4479
Joined: Jul 11 2008Location: Leeds |
Hi G, yes the wheels are TSW and have an offset of et25 so no spacers required. I do have some spogit rings in them that match the bore of the hub so they sit nice and snug on it. I did previously run some 19" wheels with spacers, and although they were kei hubcentric spacers I still think they may have put some strain on the running gear and may have been the cause of my bearings failing. I will stick my standard wheels back on and see if there is any improvement and then check back here. Thanks |
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mike_b
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Member No: #4479
Joined: Jul 11 2008Location: Leeds |
Right, as I said yesterday evening I changed my 19's for my standard 15" steelies. I took it for a spin and the noise and vibrations were still there. So I decided to put my 19's back on and whilst I had the drivers front wheel off I decided to have a quick look around. I tried turning the brake disc and guess what, it only turned freely for about a quarter to half of a turn. I used a screwdriver to push back the piston slightly and give the pads a bit of room. Then when I turned the disc I could actually see it getting near to the pads and then away again. WARPED DISCS!!! I put the wheel back on and repeated the above on the passenger front wheel and had the same outcome. I put that wheel on and the got into the car and did the usual brake pedal pump and then took it for a spin. The noise was there instantly but it did seem to be a bit quieter for the first minute or so until I breaked for a corner, when it came back quite loud again. So today I bought some new discs and pads and fitted them tonight. Took her for a quick spin and seems to have sorted it. I can still hear some noise but that could well be tyre noise from the 19's or just me being paranoid!! I will give it a test tomorrow on the way to work and also try it at 60mph, see if I still get steering wheel wobble. I will check beck with you tomorrow and say for sure if it's sorted. Many thanks for the help (and sorry for the essay!!) Mike |
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mike_b
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Member No: #4479
Joined: Jul 11 2008Location: Leeds |
Right, here we go again!! Drove to work this morning and the car seems to be much quieter, however there is still something there!! The same nois but nowhere near as intense. It still happens regardless of gear selected and on the way I took her upto 70mph on the bypass and still have some wheel wobble. At that speed the noise is easily audible but at normal speeds 30-40mph you can hear it only really if you listen for it. It still has that deeper note of sound when slowing down through the 20-14mph range but again that is not as bad either. Was hoping for a lucky fix with the new discs and pads. Oh well. The search continues!! |
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Etranger
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 Member No: #45812
Joined: Aug 09 2016Location: Harrogate |
Awww sh*t... I'm getting exactly the same problem from my 57 plate 1.6 hatch. A low droning/humming noise from the front of the car that builds between 30 - 50 mph. The noise varies with road speed and doesn't vary with gear changes/engine speed. Originally I thought the source of the problem was worn rear wheel bearings, but having listened around the car, it appears to come from the front driver's side. I did think worn bearings were the problem, but there's no variation in the sound when I drive round corners (as would be the case if the bearings were worn on one side). So maybe I've got warped discs too. I'm putting it in the shop next week to have bearings and brakes checked so I guess I'll find out... I noticed also from its MOT history that some time in the past the gaiters on the driveshaft had split, so I was wondering if dirt/water ingress may have caused wear in the CV joints. Would that result in a droning/humming sound? |
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fulabeer
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  Member No: #45669
Joined: Jul 25 2016Location: Manchester |
I've been here before on my van. After changing all the wheel bearings, the droning noise still persists? Well look at getting the intermediate drive shaft bearing changed. Offset gearboxes (front wheel drive cars) need an extra bearing/driveshaft to transfer the power to the offside wheel. This bearing gives the same rumble/drone as a worn wheel bearing. Not 100% sure all cars are the same though. |
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Etranger
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Member No: #45812
Joined: Aug 09 2016Location: Harrogate |
So, after a couple of sleepless nights worrying about failing CV joints crunching bearings and expensive transmission repairs, turns out it was the N/S/F wheel bearing. Replaced it. Silence restored. |
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