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Timing chain problems |
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GAZZA-VTR
 
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  Member No: #29364
Joined: Feb 16 2013Location: Seaham |
Been doing a bit research today about oil and servicing today for my 1.6 VTi petrol coupe and came across some forums for Peugeot, mini and DS3 owners who have suffered problems with engine rattle and timing chain failures on these "prince" engines. Just wondering how big this problem is as there is not any real talk on this forum about it. Is this a problem just with the turbo version or all models? |
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Rich_Eason
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    Member No: #90
Joined: Jan 29 2007Location: Bristol |
Never heard of anything on here of timing chain problems so cant really comment on their reliability on the C4s. In general, the noise issue is one of the reasons why timing belts are used (bar other benefits - space/ weight/ refinement) however IMO chains are a better (but somehwat agricultural) option. What is interesting is that a lot of manufacturers (Ford, Mazda...) are reverting back to using chains again to permit flexibility - power outputs and tuning states - within a limited range of engine types. |
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FrankBullitt
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 Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
Yes, it is an extensive problem and is suffered by the 1.6THP engine which has a chain - the Prince unit has a belt I believe. I did some research around this as my colleague has a 308 1.6THP which had needed a new chain at 19k and recently at 27k which seemed rather odd; on each occasion it was after hard acceleration; what happens is the belt stretches and the timing goes out slightly so the car runs rough. The DS3 forum is full of stories on the issue but it doesn't affect the 1.6VTi Prince unit. | ||
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Citroening
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  Member No: #24121
Joined: Feb 04 2012Location: Cambridgeshire |
(Just thought that I'd point out that the VTi is also chain driven Chris)...  But as you say, seems to be the THPs that are affected the most, I can't remember hearing of a VTi that has been affected... Mine's quite high mileage for it's age (>54K and 2010) and (touch wood) it's been fine so far... Although the extra 30BHP, low down torque and 6 speed 'box are all very tempting, the simplicity of the VTi without all of the extra turbo gubbins and potential associated problems are tempting to stick to as opposed to "upgrade" to the THP... But I must admit I am starting to wish I had some more power... 
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GAZZA-VTR
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Member No: #29364
Joined: Feb 16 2013Location: Seaham |
Really enjoy driving mine now and when I upgrade I'm thinking of a DS3 but with a diesel 110 bhp motor but That will be another 2 years I think. | ||
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FrankBullitt
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Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
Thanks for the info on the chain, I didn't realise. Is the VTi a good unit? I'm thinking of getting it in our next car as it seems to have decent performance stats and lacks many new technologies which are fraught with potnetial reliability woes - is it smooth and flexible? I had it in a DS3 a while back and though it was nice but didn't spend long enough with it to truly find out. |
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GAZZA-VTR
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Member No: #29364
Joined: Feb 16 2013Location: Seaham |
Yes it's a nice little engine that needs to be revved to get best out of it. It will also lug along at low revs in traffic so a good all rounder in my opinion only thing I think it lacks is 6th gear. | ||
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Citroening
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Member No: #24121
Joined: Feb 04 2012Location: Cambridgeshire |
I rate it well Chris, and echo what Gazza has put. Since I've owned mine (in Loeb spec), I've put nearly 10k onto it over a mix of roads and conditions. Nowadays I am used to the power (120BHP) but it still does seem to motor well considering what it is. What's gone wrong? Nothing...(touches wood very quickly...!) Mine's quite high mileage for the age however apart from service items it really has been fine. Likes to be revved to get to the bottom of the power, but is the nature of the engine. When cruising at motorway speeds and put your foot down it does pick up well. Whilst also good fun on the backroads too. Like Gazza said, I'd love for it to have a 6 Speed. Motorway cruising the revs are high which is to be expected I suppose for a 16v unit. MPG-wise, well depends on how heavy my right foot is...!...but just under 40MPG is achievable. More on a steady run. I got around 417 per tank which was "very" mixed driving indeed... Modifications (if you're into that sort of thing...!) unfortunately aren't very commonplace. I've opted for a stainless steel exhaust which made for a nice difference and can be quite throaty. Few vids on my thread here. - Click Here - - Click Here - I say go for it...! If you happen to be over this way Chris then I'm happy to show you what it's like in C4 Coupe form...! Any excuse to clean it... |
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FrankBullitt
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Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
Thanks Franklin, you can't be too far from me I'd have thought so definitely worth he trip over! Sadly, if we go for a car with this engine it won't be a C4  Is the comment about a 6th gear to get better economy at cruising speed or refinement related - obviously it will differ from car to car but I had the feeling the DS3 was doing about 3200rpm at 70mph and the engine was quiet and smooth whilst seemingly returning low 40's. |
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Citroening
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Member No: #24121
Joined: Feb 04 2012Location: Cambridgeshire |
Regarding the 6th gear I suppose I am just being picky Chris - in an ideal worth it'd have the 6 speed in it but the 5 speed is perfectly fine. Certainly compared with my previous C4 By Loeb which featured the earlier 1.6 TU (110BHP) engine, the cruising revs are lower than that which was nice. I can't remember off hand what it's doing at 70 but 3200rpm does sound about right from memory. Just that when driving along those private runways and pushing 80/90 the revs are certainly getting up there and thus MPG decreasing a bit more... Nice enough set-up, though, and once used to is an entertaining drive too. I don't usually look at specs, but the DS3 VTi is 1075 kg whilst my C4 is 1217 kg - thus the 0-60 times are 8.6 secs and 9.7 secs... Bet the DS3 is good fun in the VTi form, then... |
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GAZZA-VTR
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Member No: #29364
Joined: Feb 16 2013Location: Seaham |
DS3 VTI will be a little cracker I think | ||
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GAZZA-VTR
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Member No: #29364
Joined: Feb 16 2013Location: Seaham |
Just out of curiosity Franklin what oil do you use in your's? | ||
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Citroening
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Member No: #24121
Joined: Feb 04 2012Location: Cambridgeshire |
GAZZA-VTR wrote ... Just out of curiosity Franklin what oil do you use in your's? I've still got a bit left in the can Gary so popped and got a few pics - currently running Valvoline Fully Synthetic 5W30:  
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GAZZA-VTR
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Member No: #29364
Joined: Feb 16 2013Location: Seaham |
Cheers mate | ||
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GAZZA-VTR
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Member No: #29364
Joined: Feb 16 2013Location: Seaham |
Well I thought I would research further into this and talked with a Citroen mechanic and he told me this is a known issue on all prince engine cars THP and VTI. He said the engine is fairly bullet proof as long as you service it with correct oil and filter. As some people are using aftermarket oil filter which are causing low oil pressure and not enough oil getting to the oil fed tensioner and causing the timing chain to stretch and then peoples wallets to collapse. |
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