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C4 - DS4 Owners :: Forums :: Citroen C4 Picasso and Grand C4 Picasso (B78) 2013 onward :: C4 Picasso and Grand C4 Picasso (B78) Problems and Issues

Timing belt recall and subsequent failure

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dec1anm   
Tue Mar 28 2023, 10:16am
Member No: #51658
Joined: Jul 17 2018
Location: Nottingham, UK
Hi all,

My 2017 C4GP 1.2 Petrol Auto was recalled a couple of years ago for the timing belt issue - Citroen took measurements and said it was fine. The light came on again a few months later and they rechecked it and again said it was fine. That's over 12 months ago now.

Last week the car has hit significant issues and is completely off the road. My local garage said the turbo bearings have gone and it is likely to have been caused by the timing belt (he called it wet belt) issue. He's recommending replacing the turbo, the belt and the oil pump - and I'm looking at a sizeable bill.

Has anyone got any experience of their car passing a recall test, and then having subsequent issues due to the issue it was recalled for? I suspect Citroen won't want anything to do with it, but it's worth a try.

Thanks,

dec1anm
danlat1415   
Tue Mar 28 2023, 01:43pm
Member No: #48933
Joined: Jul 17 2017
Location: UK
If it was subject to a recall, they should have replaced regardless, rather than checking and leaving it to eventually fail.
That's the purpose of a recall.
tomandjo2   
Tue Mar 28 2023, 02:25pm
Member No: #20851
Joined: Jul 17 2011
Location: Cambridge
Contact Citroen to see what if anything was done on both visits regarding the recall and to see if they can help towards repair cost.

Also prior to contacting Citroen, arm yourself with some info and find out what the recall was actually for and what should have been done.
danlat1415   
Tue Mar 28 2023, 03:02pm
Member No: #48933
Joined: Jul 17 2017
Location: UK
Agree.
Check what the actual recall was for, whether it was the timing belt/timing chain or the auxiliary belt.

I had a recall on my previous 2014 C4 Picasso which was for the auxiliary belt and belt tensioners. This was due to the tensioner wearing, causing the belt to be slacker than it should be. The Stop/Start function is run by the auxiliary belt, as the belt would be restarted by the alternator on the restart function, and if too slack, it wouldn't grip and just spin, resulting in the engine stalling or failing to restart when the stop/start kicked in - as the belt would slip when trying to restart.


That is different to the timing chain/ timing belt.
Richard_C   
Tue Apr 11 2023, 10:57am
Member No: #46470
Joined: Oct 11 2016
Location: Cambridge
We have just had the recall on our C3, same engine but 110 bhp in this application. Timing belt, which is a 'wet belt' running inside the engine so effectively in oil, measured and found to be in spec. But - told tha the service schedule has changed to replace at 6, not 10 years. There is a mileage limit as well but don't recall what it is. I suspect that now the puretech has been around for a few years PSA is finding that the belts don't last 10 years after all and they are picking up lots of expensive goodwill claims for new engines.

Let's say belt is £600 dealer fitted or therebouts, if you do it every 6 years it adds £100 a year to your motoring costs: if it lasted 10 years the equivalent would be £60 a year so not a big change if you step back and look at it in cold economic terms. I think the XUD engines (I had a few) were 60k/6 years so its no different.

I suppose the big question for the OP is at time of recall did the dealer give you a bit of paper with the new miles/time cambelt change advice and did you follow it? If they did and you didn't, you are on your own. If they didn't then you might have a goodwill-type claim against Citroen.

I'm not familiar with the belt routing on that engine, but it seems to me a big leap to say the belt is the primary cause of the turbo bearing failure. A lot of the cost will be labour so I would get the belt done if they have to go in to change the turbo.

routemaster1   
Tue Apr 11 2023, 12:02pm
Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007
Location: Dorset
Richard_C wrote ...


I suppose the big question for the OP is at time of recall did the dealer give you a bit of paper with the new miles/time cambelt change advice and did you follow it? If they did and you didn't, you are on your own. If they didn't then you might have a goodwill-type claim against Citroen.



It may be worth approaching the dealer to ask for the paperwork. If not, the work done should be on the car's history in the computer system.
DeuxChevaux   
Tue Apr 11 2023, 03:56pm
Member No: #16472
Joined: Nov 21 2010
Location: North Norfolk UK
We have a 1.2 engined DS3 which has now done about 21000 miles. Its a 16 plate. We had the recall at about 5 years and , not surpisingly, it was passed as ok. We were given a piece of paper which reduced the belt change intervals down to 6 years or - can't remember how many miles but double what has now done at least. 6 years came and we had the belt changed at a Citroen independant specialist who used genuine Citroen (sorry DS) specialist parts. I had a look at the belt that had been replaced. It was showing cracks along its entire length and my fingernail could easilly remove bits of rubber from it. I think we had a lucky escape as I don't think that belt would have lasted very much longer. Anyone who is dithering on do I don't I replace the belt I would say Do It and Do It Now! I've heard of several failures and know of one person who Citroen have refused help to on a 5 year old engine that was a few thousand miles over their newly imposed reduced miles for change.

In answer to a question above, the belt shreds and blocks various things such as oil strainers and oil feeds to such things as turbos as well as the feed to the vacumn pump that servos the brakes
vexorg   
Wed Apr 12 2023, 03:34am
Member No: #48843
Joined: Jul 06 2017
Location: Scotland
You do wonder of the logic behind changing designs that have worked well for decades.

Do they have meetings where someone says:
"See that dry timing belt that's very reliable and simple for an owner to do an diy change, we should change that to this wet belt that's more difficult to change, and as it fails, even more catastrophic as it blocks all the oilways...."

Anyway, mine has a dry belt and handbook says 10 years or 150k miles. At 9.5 years the belt still looked good to me when changing it. Even from citroen the belt and kit was about £200. You can get them from motorfactors for about £100, but given how important it is, I tend to use OEM for critical components.
Farmerguy   
Thu Apr 13 2023, 02:02am
Member No: #59597
Joined: Apr 10 2022
Location: Denmark west part
Why would you have a rubber belt running in oil?
Thats just retarded..
Why would a timing belt issue cause a turbo to fail? It is usually a destroyed piston/valve thing.
vexorg   
Thu Apr 13 2023, 06:27am
Member No: #48843
Joined: Jul 06 2017
Location: Scotland
As said above, bits of belt flake off and clog up the oilways
Farmerguy   
Fri Apr 14 2023, 02:27am
Member No: #59597
Joined: Apr 10 2022
Location: Denmark west part
vexorg wrote ...

As said above, bits of belt flake off and clog up the oilways

🤦 What did they expect when putting it in the oil system??
But would it not cause a complete engine failure??
skorpion   
Fri Apr 14 2023, 05:00am
Member No: #55124
Joined: Nov 28 2019
Location: West Yorkshire
Farmerguy wrote ...

vexorg wrote ...

As said above, bits of belt flake off and clog up the oilways

🤦 What did they expect when putting it in the oil system??
But would it not cause a complete engine failure??


Ford had a rubber belt on a Diesel Mondeo years ago. Though you could get a aftermarket Chain conversion, that was popular.
vexorg   
Fri Apr 14 2023, 05:47am
Member No: #48843
Joined: Jul 06 2017
Location: Scotland
Farmerguy wrote ...

🤦 What did they expect when putting it in the oil system??
But would it not cause a complete engine failure??

Well, we could ask PSA engineers, but dont hold your breath for an answer.

Turbo bearings are more sensitivtive to oil starvation than big ends, it may do damange but you wouldn't notice the same. Either way I'd not be happy with that design.
Farmerguy   
Fri Apr 14 2023, 06:03am
Member No: #59597
Joined: Apr 10 2022
Location: Denmark west part
skorpion wrote ...

Farmerguy wrote ...

vexorg wrote ...

As said above, bits of belt flake off and clog up the oilways

🤦 What did they expect when putting it in the oil system??
But would it not cause a complete engine failure??


Ford had a rubber belt on a Diesel Mondeo years ago. Though you could get a aftermarket Chain conversion, that was popular.


Was that a psa engine too?
Farmerguy   
Fri Apr 14 2023, 06:08am
Member No: #59597
Joined: Apr 10 2022
Location: Denmark west part
vexorg wrote ...

Farmerguy wrote ...

🤦 What did they expect when putting it in the oil system??
But would it not cause a complete engine failure??

Well, we could ask PSA engineers, but dont hold your breath for an answer.

Turbo bearings are more sensitivtive to oil starvation than big ends, it may do damange but you wouldn't notice the same. Either way I'd not be happy with that design.


True, turbos are very sensitive to running without oil!!
No rubber in oil is just stupid.
They should have used a chain, even though they also can have problems i have never heard about a Saab dieing because of the chain, im not nervous about it.
Or they could start doing like my Deutz with gears in oil, there have been no exchange since 1967
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