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Why is the Spacetourer rubbish for fuel economy? |
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matrixstar
 
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  Member No: #56291
Joined: Jun 21 2020Location: London |
Grand C4 Picasso - looking to buy because of fuel economy (and space inside) But just wondering... Why did they go wrong with the replacement model Spacetourer?? Nearly double fuel cost + 8x in Road tax Am I missing something? |
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gittos
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   Member No: #30055
Joined: Apr 02 2013Location: Bolton |
All they did was change the name....the car is exactly the same as C4 Picasso (maybe a couple of minor cosmetic changes) so no change in fuel consumption, where have you got “double the fuel cost” from?, don’t believe the “official figures” they’re generally rubbish. VED was changed in April 2017 when it was still called Picasso...blame the government for that. | ||||
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matrixstar
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Member No: #56291
Joined: Jun 21 2020Location: London |
No... I'm not imagining... 🙂 Grand C4 Picasso has 74mpg say and road tax of £20. The Grand Spacetourer has 39mpg and road tax of £125. These are just typical figures quoted I've seen. |
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wunny
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Member No: #42824
Joined: Nov 29 2015Location: Cardiff |
I got 39 mpg from mine when new, but as it has aged, it now gives 55.4 mpg average. To get the Official road test figures I believe that the car is tested, with minimal weight, so no seats other that the driver's seat and that won't be standard, no door mirrors, nothing that would cause drag, minimum fuel, even the washer bottle removed / empty, low rolling resistance tyres. It's nothing like the cars that are sold. |
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routemaster1
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 Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007Location: Dorset |
matrixstar wrote ... No... I'm not imagining... 🙂 Grand C4 Picasso has 74mpg say and road tax of £20. The Grand Spacetourer has 39mpg and road tax of £125. These are just typical figures quoted I've seen. Firstly I am sure you are not confusing the Grande C4 Spacetourer (C4 Picasso renamed) with the Citroen Spacetourer, based on the Transit sized van. I have checked on the latest brochure. Combined consumption figures quoted are; 1.2 Pure Tech manual ~41-47mpg 1.2 Pure Tech auto ~37-45mpg 130 bhp HDi Manual ~49-60mpg 130 bhp HDi auto ~47-59mpg You don't say what your sources are. In reality, you are never going to get 74mpg. That number probably comes from the old statutory mpg figure, which are totally unrealistic. Some on the site claim to get 65mpg, but I suspect that is taken from the computer which can be (but not always) wildly optimistic. 39mpg seems fairly reasonable for a petrol car, also bearing in mind the cheaper fuel and the potentially expensive issues with Euro 6 diesels. |
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FrankBullitt
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  Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
matrixstar wrote ... No... I'm not imagining... 🙂 Grand C4 Picasso has 74mpg say and road tax of £20. The Grand Spacetourer has 39mpg and road tax of £125. These are just typical figures quoted I've seen. All cars registered after 1st April 2017 attract entirely different VED rates - it’s nothing to do with the change to the Spacetourer. Not sure where the £125 comes from, it’s £150pa. As for the economy you probably need to reference the 29mpg as that’s not an official figure. |
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gittos
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Member No: #30055
Joined: Apr 02 2013Location: Bolton |
matrixstar wrote ... No... I'm not imagining... 🙂 Grand C4 Picasso has 74mpg say and road tax of £20. The Grand Spacetourer has 39mpg and road tax of £125. These are just typical figures quoted I've seen. Never thought you were imagining, but the fuel consumption figures are a none sense. In the past manufacturers figures were produced in a lab on a rolling road not outdoors on a road in the real world so were generally wildly optimistic. In 2018 I think the way the figures were produced were changed to supposedly represent more like real world driving. I had a 1.6 blue hdi C4P which round town would do mid to high 40s mpg and a motor way run would do around 60mpg (I am not an eco driver). So as far as the figures you have some could be official ones and others from real drivers usage so are not comparable. The two cars are the same with the same engine ...if you are talking about the Blue hdi diesel, the fuel consumption will be the same The VED was changed by the Government for all cars in 2017 so that is nothing to do with Citroen. |
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matrixstar
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Member No: #56291
Joined: Jun 21 2020Location: London |
Thanks guys. A little wiser I am. 🙂 My source: hours and hours of searching auto trader website over many days and weeks! It seems so odd if the vehicle emission is the same - but you have to pay MORE for road tax?? Stated mpg are all lies... OK, I get that. But I was assuming they're all equally lying. So comparing one with another... If one had better figures... I assumed that was true. (Hoping that makes sense!) |
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iscom
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 Member No: #20936
Joined: Jul 21 2011Location: Ireland Fermanagh & Galway |
My road is £20 per year (101-110 g/km) and doing 64+ mpg (58.4 Average) more than happy and diesel costing 107.9 euro per litre what more could ask for 
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matrixstar
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Member No: #56291
Joined: Jun 21 2020Location: London |
Still perplexed. I don't mean to take this discussion further and further. LOL. Spacetourer: stated MPG is like 40. Road tax is like £150. You guys are saying this is the SAME car, but it's been judged under different rule sets?? |
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gittos
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Member No: #30055
Joined: Apr 02 2013Location: Bolton |
Yes | ||||
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routemaster1
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Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007Location: Dorset |
The first year's tax is based on the official figures. The way the official figures are measured has changed. At approximately the same time, the way the government taxed cars has changed. So you keep the car the same, but the official figures change, the tax regime changes, and you pay more tax. The changes are not retrospective, so my C4 Picasso diesel is taxed at £20, which is what I have paid from new and will continue to pay unless the rules are changed. Tax is not now based on CO2 output. For my car, which I believe emits 100-110g/km the current tax is £150, and this applies to all diesel and petrol cars unless list price exceeds £40,000, in which case the annual fee is £475. So to sum up. It currently makes no difference what the fuel consumption is, you pay a flat rate. If you wish to only pay £20 a year you need to find a used car which is old enough to benefit from the earlier rate. As stated before Ciroen have done nothing to make the C4 Spacecruiser worse, it is change in legislation. And I still don't get where you get your 39mpg figure from. It must be from a magazine road test, and I'm afraid that in most cases the testers have lead feet, and drive the cars very hard. |
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cj7wilson
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Member No: #56245
Joined: Jun 14 2020Location: North Yorkshire |
Vehicle exise duty changed a few years back, 2017? I think. But all cars unless zero emissions are charged a flat rate of 150 is, and expensive vehicles i.e range rovers pay an extra 400ish a year for the first five years. Re mpg as others have said old figure was rolling road new figure is real world. I have a 2016 2.0 bluehdi auto, get roughly 35/40 mpg round town and 50/55mpg on a run. I have once nudged 60mpg but I was driving rather gentle |
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matrixstar
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Member No: #56291
Joined: Jun 21 2020Location: London |
Trump gets voted in as president. We get Brexit. We get Covid19. And now I find out about this crazy world of cars? The world is going mad 😋😜 I have a Toyota Prius 2008. I get roughly 45mpg (on average) - as reported on the dashboard. Before that I had a petrol hungry super fast BMW 5 series. I'm saving about £200 a month on petrol with the Prius. Along with insurance + road tax, I think its mad that I wasted £2400 a year by having the BMW. Hence... One of the main reasons I wanted to buy the Grand C4 Picasso (the other one being space at the back 3 seats). Not many other cars beat it for fuel economy - but that's ONLY based on published figures. Just looked at the specs of a used space tourer. Combined fuel of 45.3 mpg. (Another model had 58.3 mpg) Those are just 2 examples. |
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FrankBullitt
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Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
You really do need to link the references your using so they can be explained. The changes to the way emissions are calculated in 2018 (WLTP) has also had a vast difference on published figures although very little in the real world, so new cars have lower figures shown but they are more representative where as older cars are based on NEDC where the figures were easy for manufacturers to..ahem...ensure their cars got really good statistics which weren’t relevant for the real world; cars that didn’t have their engines running at times (either at a stop or due to small hybrid batteries) gave completely unrealistic figures. Your Prius is a good example, you might be happy with 45mpg but officially it’s supposed to be substantially higher. I think, frankly, you are over-thinking it; a 1.6 diesel across all ages will largely give similar figures but the way the figures have been calculated have changed dramatically. Take the advice of real owners on here but also be aware that how you drive makes all the difference. |
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