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C5 and the future of C4 ?

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Richard_C   
Thu Jan 24 2019, 02:24pm
Member No: #46470
Joined: Oct 11 2016
Location: Cambridge
Once upon a time .... the C4 Pic/Grand Pic and the Peugeot 3008/5008 were spiritually similar. Then the Peugeots went all chunky and SUV'ish except for no 4WD.

Now Citroen has launched the C5 aircross. Looking at the specs, the size, drive train and pricing is very close to the C4 Pic, and it even has separate rears seats. So a Peugeot 3008 with a bit more load space flexibility.

If I was up for spending almost £30k on a new car, its more likely to be the C5 Aircross than a C4 Pic, but in the real world I wouldn't want to spend anything like that.

Which makes me think. Model numbers are more about marketing than floorpans these days - the C4 Cactus was really a bulky C3 when it appeared and could easily be re-branded just as "the Citroen Cactus" The C5 Aircross and the 7 seater version which will surely follow drains the life and purpose from the C4 Pic range and suddenly C4 is no more.

C2 and C6 have gone, C5 went but has returned, C1-C3-C5 plus oddites like Cactus Berlingo perhaps?


Buy now while stocks last???? Run-out bargains due soon? Forum renamed C4ownersand afewotherthingsabitlikeC4s.org......Who knows.
Ashwinher   
Thu Jan 24 2019, 02:48pm
Member No: #52640
Joined: Dec 05 2018
Location: Galway, Ireland
I had a strange observation when I went to Peugeot Citroen Dealer in Galway. I saw just Peugeot cars in showroom and no Citroen. Does it mean Peugeot just want to promote their brand and slowly phase out sister unit Citroen....
rusky   
Fri Jan 25 2019, 07:08am
Member No: #27768
Joined: Oct 13 2012
Location: Hove
Are Citroen targeting the agricultural market with 720mm wheels?
Richard_C   
Fri Jan 25 2019, 08:08am
Member No: #46470
Joined: Oct 11 2016
Location: Cambridge
Reply to Ashwinher -

Round here (Cambridge) the Citroen dealer network has crumbled. 2 gone, nearest one left is miles away. Fortunately one became an authorized service agent so you can get warranty work done.

In the motor trade mag survey of how satisfied dealers are with their manufacturer, Citroen gets very low ratings.

I think there are 4 reasons. Citroen tech support on ICE is rubbish, leaving dealers with grumbly customers and no way to resolve. The forced separation of Citroen and DS showrooms (planned back when DS3 actually sold in volume) split the profitable brand away unless the dealer invested ££££ in separate facilities - those that did found DS doesn't sell in anything like economic volumes. Citroen now sell a lot through 'Citroen owned' outlets like Robins and Day so presumably they get better deals and margins than stand alone dealers, plus they plan to invest in online sales. Finally, if you look at the model range they are about 2 years behind the curve: Peugeot got 2008 long before Citroen got C3 Aircross, 3008 SUV long before C5 Aircross. Citroen dealers have nothing to sell against the volume Golf/Focus/Astra now C4 has gone, Cactus is great but won't win many mainstream buyers, and now Vauxhall is in PSA they have new versions of PSA floorpans and drivetrains which will eke even more business away.

So yes - I can understand a dealer focusing on the Peugeot brands.
BigJohnD   
Fri Jan 25 2019, 04:34pm

Member No: #82
Joined: Jan 22 2007
Location: Hoylake
I agree with what's being said. My local Citroen dealer became more corporate and de-personalised, and frankly, gave me increasing amounts of BS when I spoke to them about servicing. They told me to forget Michelin tyres and get some unheard cheap brand that would get me through the MoT. I was about to make a 4,000+ mile journey to the Algarve. I wanted premium tyres. So off I went to CostCo.

The final insult was when I asked about part ex and cars on their forecourt. The salesman would only talk about a new DS5..... I now own a Skoda Estate.

I'm not saying the customer is king but ignoring whatever s/he is saying will drive business away.
FrankBullitt   
Sat Jan 26 2019, 11:19am

Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
Yes, they’ve got a strange product range and some very odd decisions with dealerships. I suppose the product range is probably not that different to the 60’s when you had the smaller cars nailed, larger cars nailed and a lack of a family hatch - I love the Cactus, pre and post facelift, but a car based on the decade old C3Picasso chassis to fight the family corner when the lack of a car that sits on the 308 chassis (introduced in 2013) seems criminal to me - of course there is the Spacetourer but that’s not really the point.

If I owned a Citroen I don’t know where I’d go to my closest dealer is a poorly thought of chain, Duxford is now service only and in the hands of EMG (...eugh...) so it’s much further afield.

I have been thinking of replacing my A2 with a Cactus, so might be back in the fold at some point!
routemaster1   
Sat Jan 26 2019, 02:45pm
Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007
Location: Dorset
I thought the old Cactus was C3 based and the new version C4 based. I can't say I'm surprised that the C5 Aircrosser is being viewed as A C4P replacement. It seems that MPVs have had their day,

If you consider the C4GP, it was first introduced in very late 2006, facelifted after ~3 years in 2010, then this replaced by the current version after 3 years in 2013, and then facelifted after 3 years in 2016. It is now nearly 3 years since the facelift and is probably on borrowed time. The current range after its name change has a slight smell of run-out, but not named Edition or Platinum.

I am wondering what to replace mine with in a year or two. We have looked at the 3008 and 5008; my wife actually likes them, but isn't enamoured with the colour. She thinks it is big, but the 5008 is only marginally longer than a C4GP. Looks like we may have to consider one, or the C5 Aircross. It will be interesting to see if there is a 7 seat version (Don't need the seats but I like the extra luggage space!)
FrankBullitt   
Sat Jan 26 2019, 02:57pm

Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
The 3008 and 5008 are hugely expensive, either to buy or finance - it clearly isn’t an issue though as they shift them! I suspect there will be a 7-seat C5 Aircross coming along at some point.

The facelifted Cactus is still the same car underneath as the old one
routemaster1   
Sun Jan 27 2019, 02:32am
Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007
Location: Dorset
FrankBullitt wrote ...

The 3008 and 5008 are hugely expensive, either to buy or finance - it clearly isn’t an issue though as they shift them! I suspect there will be a 7-seat C5 Aircross coming along at some point.

The facelifted Cactus is still the same car underneath as the old one

Makes sense. It's just I remember seeing the review of the new version in the Daily Express. As their writer isn't always known for accuracy........
routemaster1   
Mon Jan 28 2019, 03:44pm
Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007
Location: Dorset
I have downloaded the brochure for the C5 Aircross. This is the first time I have seen the new fuel consumption figures.Taking as an example, the Puretech 130 manual, the figures are

Low 8.5-8.0 litres/100km (33.4-35.5mpg)
Medium 7.1-6.2 litres/100km (39.9-45.9mpg)
High 6.3-5.5 litres/100km (44.6-51.4mpg)
Extra High 7.8-6.7 litres/100km (36.4-42.1mpg)
Combined 7.7-6.4 litres/100km (36.6-44.2mpg)

I am not entirely sure what this is supposed to mean, apart from that the figures are supposed to indicate 'real world' figures.I'm not sure what low, medium high and extra high mean, as it seems odd that the figures get better from low to high, then get worse for extra high. I assume that they refer to speed, high being driving at ~60mph, and extra high at, say, 80mph.

Could anyone shed any light on this while I search Google!

EDIT. Found this. Low speed is City driving, but no definition of medium, high or extra high.

- Click Here -
FrankBullitt   
Tue Jan 29 2019, 01:02am

Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
Vauxhall explain it really well, the table 2/3 of the way down this page gives some useful info;

- Click Here -
routemaster1   
Tue Jan 29 2019, 05:17am
Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007
Location: Dorset
Thanks for that. Clarifies things nicely.
routemaster1   
Mon Feb 04 2019, 08:05am
Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007
Location: Dorset
We went to the dealers today to have a first look at the C5 Aircross. I'm not sure which trim level it was, but it had a sunroof and 19" wheels. It was an auto. I wasn't particularly impressed. The electric seats didn't seem to go low enough for my liking. My view out of the windscreen was compromised by a low top screen edge. Being used to the C4GP and C3 screen I found it a little claustrophobic. I liked the opening sunroof, but I would be very uncomfortable in the rear due to limited legroom with the front seat set for me, and I don't have long legs. We are really spoilt for legroom in the C4GP. The sunroof also considerably compromises the rear headroom (short legs, long back). The boot space was good with a space-saver spare, and plenty of storage for odds and ends below the solid floor.

All in all, I think it is doubtful that I would buy a C5 Aircross unless a 7 seat version comes along. If I had to replace the C4GP with a Citroen, it would probably be a C3 Aircross, but my probable choice would be a Peugeot 5008. Added bonus is that Mrs Routemaster likes it, apart from the dull colour palette!
Richard_C   
Mon Feb 04 2019, 11:52am
Member No: #46470
Joined: Oct 11 2016
Location: Cambridge
A dealer - luxury. None round here.

......apart from the dull colour palette!

Cost of anything other than the one cheap colour they do - about £600. Cost of professional vinyl wrap, about £1500. So how about ordering base boring colour and spending a few £££ more on (say) lime green or orange.....zebra stripes......'dazzle' ships camouflage..... rusty rust .... oh the possibilities.
bluehdi   
Mon Feb 04 2019, 12:37pm
Member No: #2617
Joined: Mar 02 2008
Location: Essex
I really cannot understand Peugeot with their particular range of dull colours for the 5008 (apart from the blue that is only available on the 5008). The 3008 has a much better selection of brighter external colours. I’m on my second brand new 3008 GT 180 diesel now (in just 18 months). The first one was in lovely Sunset Copper and now Ultimate Red, which I’m very pleased with. The EAT8 is a lovely improvement over the EAT6, which was already smooth. The Focal stereo and full leather is also fantastic.

Having been a real French car fan for many years, I considered the Peugeot 5008, but found its side on proportions looked a bit odd and stuck with another new 3008. Although the 5008 and 3008 appear very expensive (on their list prices), certainly my experience of the new diesels, there are some very big discounts available with certain dealers, especially close to the end of the month.

Just like Citroen, Peugeot have just started silently tweaking 3008 and 5008 specs, with interior LED ambient lighting being reduced, whilst prices increase.

The PSA dealer rationalisation has also resulted in long journeys to typically useless dealers (for post sales service). My local Citroen dealer still survives, but gave up sales due to Citroen demands for massive investment. I’d rather trust them to look after my car, but it’s not really feasible, given warranty and lack of ability to plug in my Peugeot for diagnosis.

The Citroen range and in particular the new C5 Aircross is all very odd at present. It’s a quirky looking car and I’m unclear how it fits into the whole range. I’m really not sure Citroen know either! The DS3 Crossback looks very interesting.
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