or Login >>         
C4 - DS4 Owners :: Forums :: The Lounge :: The Lounge

Fuel prices

Home   Forum Rules    Forum Help  Conversion Tools
   
Please Register to enjoy additional Member Benefits
Top Thanked Forum Posts: Today | Week | Month | Year | All time | Most Thanks Given: To member | By user
Author Post
routemaster1   
Sat Nov 17 2018, 07:25am
Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007
Location: Dorset
I'm extremely confused! Oil prices are dropping, but the price of diesel seems to be increasing. Petrol seems to be falling. When I first had a diesel car, diesel was about 4p/L more expensive than petrol, but today I have seen unleaded 11p/L cheaper than diesel. What is going on? Are diesel drivers being fleeced by oil companies, cashing in on the unpopularity of diesel?
iscom   
Sat Nov 17 2018, 07:37am
Member No: #20936
Joined: Jul 21 2011
Location: Ireland Fermanagh & Galway
In Ireland Diesel is king as its has always been cheaper than petrol, At my local independent fuel station diesel is 1.36 euro per litre but you can get it for less at some stations i have seen it as little as 1.27 per litre (as listed in - Click Here - )
Keith   
Sat Nov 17 2018, 02:29pm
Member No: #25323
Joined: Apr 21 2012
Location: Headcorn, Kent
routemaster1 wrote ...
What is going on? Are diesel drivers being fleeced by oil companies, cashing in on the unpopularity of diesel?

I think it's more likely the government putting pressure on the oil companies to deter people from buying diesel cars.

As the tax is the same and refining costs are very similar I cannot see any other explanation. It's bound to see its way through to the cost of things in the high street as transportation costs increase.
FrankBullitt   
Sat Nov 17 2018, 03:15pm

Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
The Saudi’s have been reducing production (well, OPEC but we all know who calls the shots) as a response to reduced oil prices so future buying has got more expensive - the actual price today for oil is only part of the story. Added to this the lack of supply due to the US (and by virtue of that everyone who does business with them) embargo on Iran and the future hedging is volatile.

At work we buy most of our energy 18 months to 2 years ahead - the price today is largely meaningless, it only accounts for 0-5% of what we pay.
BigJohnD   
Sat Nov 17 2018, 05:09pm

Member No: #82
Joined: Jan 22 2007
Location: Hoylake
FrankBullitt wrote ...
the price today is largely meaningless, it only accounts for 0-5% of what we pay.

Most is tax, and VAT is then added to the taxed price!

"Fuel duty is currently levied at a flat rate of 57.95p per litre for both petrol and diesel, while VAT at 20% is then charged on both the product price and the duty."

So there's about 20p VAT and 60p tax included in the pump price, leaving about 55p per litre for everything else - materials, delivery, site capital, maintenance and running costs, marketing, &c.
Keith   
Sun Nov 18 2018, 02:19am
Member No: #25323
Joined: Apr 21 2012
Location: Headcorn, Kent
But why such a large discrepancy between petrol and diesel?
Richard_C   
Sun Nov 18 2018, 05:44am
Member No: #46470
Joined: Oct 11 2016
Location: Cambridge
Crude oil prices are falling, but oil is priced in dollars so a weak pound means we don't always see a direct link - there is a currency effect.

There is always a lag between crude price and pump price - the petrol in your tank was purchased maybe a week ago, it was delivered to retailer a week before that, it was refined before that and maybe the processor contracted for the crude oil 3 months before that - so we might see some falls in pump prices soon. Who knows.

Oil companies are there to make a profit for their shareholders, not to sell as cheaply as they can. It needs someone to have a bit if overcapacity/overstock to start to drive prices down. Refineries need to operate at about 90% utilization to make any money so the supply/demand/pricing calculation gets complicated. I think refiners can slightly adjust the balance between diesel and kerosene (domestic heating oil) but Autumn is high demand for that.

The diesel/petrol price is simply demand driven - see below from the 2018 report of UK refining industry. We make too much petrol, so export some, but have to import quite a lot of refined diesel. The £/Euro and £/Dollar rates will have a very direct impact, plus the cost of getting it here. If we leave the EU without a deal next March, WTO rules mean a 3% tariff on imported refined oil products so the gap will grow even more.

Diesel has less calorific value by weigh than petrol, but its is heavier. That means a litre of Diesel has about 15% more 'energy' in it than a litre of petrol, so the price difference still seems good value. We are after all buying energy.

UK refineries, in common with those in the EU, were configured predominantly to produce petrol and therefore have a mismatch between domestic production and demand

Fiscal policy in the EU has driven up demand for diesel and demand for air transport has also increased aviation fuel use.

Consequently, the UK has a deficit of aviation fuel and diesel, whilst it exports surplus petrol and fuel oil
1 User said Thank You to Richard_C for this Post :
 BigJohnD (19 Nov 2018 : 12:08)
Keith   
Sun Nov 18 2018, 07:41am
Member No: #25323
Joined: Apr 21 2012
Location: Headcorn, Kent
Richard_C wrote ...

The diesel/petrol price is simply demand driven - see below from the 2018 report of UK refining industry. We make too much petrol, so export some, but have to import quite a lot of refined diesel. The £/Euro and £/Dollar rates will have a very direct impact, plus the cost of getting it here. If we leave the EU without a deal next March, WTO rules mean a 3% tariff on imported refined oil products so the gap will grow even more.

Diesel has less calorific value by weigh than petrol, but its is heavier. That means a litre of Diesel has about 15% more 'energy' in it than a litre of petrol, so the price difference still seems good value. We are after all buying energy.

UK refineries, in common with those in the EU, were configured predominantly to produce petrol and therefore have a mismatch between domestic production and demand

Fiscal policy in the EU has driven up demand for
diesel and demand for air transport has also
increased aviation fuel use

Consequently, the UK has a deficit of aviation fuel
and diesel, whilst it exports surplus petrol and fuel oil


Thanks for a great explanation.
 

Jump:     Back to top

User Colour Key:
Head Administrator, Administrator, Forum Moderator, Forum Moderator, Premier Member, Technical Expert, New C4 and DS4 Forum Moderators, Member