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06 C4 VTS HDi lacking boost

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ham_vts   
Wed Feb 25 2015, 05:34pm
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
Hello,

I recently bought a C4 VTS HDi with the 2.0 16v HDi with the DW10BTED4 RHR 16 Valve engine & GT17V turbo but it's lacking low end power.

After several days spent searching for the most likely causes I took on removing the turbo copy position sensor tonight & it's replacement should be here tomorrow.

I now have Lexia running on my laptop & managed a scan with this tonight also but I went with the turbo copy position sensor after a scan with my generic hand held scanner brought up two fault codes;

P0299 Turbocharger pressure signal : Pressure too low in relation to the reference value.

P2562 Turbocharger position copy signal : Positive loop gap.

Looking on autodata for the P2562 code gave me the confidence to get a new sensor.



I removed the sensor tonight by removing the lower engine mount bolt & pushing the engine forward so I could get my arm in & undo the three Phillips screws holding it onto the vacuum capsule. I expected it to be seized as appeared to be the common fault from a few of the threads I found relating to it but when I took it out the plunger moves freely so I'm concerned I've taken the wrong route atm.

Should I be able to move the input rod of the vacuum capsule onto the turbo & change the position of the variable geometry vanes or will it be tight?

I have checked on Citroen's service box & there are a few guides if I was to pay for a subscription to aid further diagnosis if I need it but does anyone know if the documents are in a PDF format (or similar) which I can download or just for refernce during the period of my paid subscription?

Thanks for any help.

Graham.
ham_vts   
Wed Feb 25 2015, 05:53pm
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
Below is a screen shot of the Lexia scan results from earlier tonight, I didn't get to probe further into each fault as the laptop threw a fit & I wanted to get the sensor off.




Graham.
BigJohnD   
Wed Feb 25 2015, 06:43pm

Member No: #82
Joined: Jan 22 2007
Location: Hoylake
Have you searched this site for further info on your error code? - Click Here -
1 User said Thank You to BigJohnD for this Post :
 Fraze026 (08 Apr 2017 : 11:14)
Dave_Retired.   
Thu Feb 26 2015, 03:02am

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
P2562 - there are multiple threads on site if you use the Site Search function - Click Here -

Likewise P0299 - there are multiple threads on the error - Click Here -

Check the turbo pipe work for air leaks 1st before changing anything

BTW ALL the error code .pdf's are available on site to Premier Members - Click Here - (we paid for them all - were not just 'a forum')

[shadowbox=http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/attachment/1/1424941602_1_FT204791_p2562.png| P2562 error::||]http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/attachment/1/1424941602_1_FT204791_p2562_.png[/shadowbox]

Here's the suspect areas for P0299: (click the image to enlarge)

[shadowbox=http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/attachment/1/1424941132_1_FT204791_p0299.png| P0299 Suspect Areas::||]http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/attachment/1/1424941132_1_FT204791_p0299_.png[/shadowbox]
1 User said Thank You to Dave_Retired. for this Post :
 ham_vts (26 Feb 2015 : 04:54)
ham_vts   
Thu Feb 26 2015, 04:53am
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
Hi John & Dave,

BigJohnD wrote ...
Have you searched this site for further info on your error code? - Click Here -

Yes, I'd been over the error code topic before signing up & they didn't give me anything more from your link than I'd already gathered from autodata.

wrote ...
P0299 Turbocharger pressure signal : Pressure too low in relation to the reference value

P2562 Turbocharger position copy signal : Positive loop gap

But I hadn't seen allthe specific fault codes pages Dave posted for the possible cause.

Admin Dave wrote ...

P2562 - there are multiple threads on site if you use the Site Search function - Click Here -

Likewise P0299 - there are multiple threads on the error - Click Here -

Check the turbo pipe work for air leaks 1st before changing anything

BTW ALL the error code .pdf's are available on site to Premier Members - Click Here - (we paid for them all - were not just 'a forum')

Thnaks for the links Dave, I'd been through a few of those topics prior to signing up & had seen the P2562 code breakdown but not all of the breakdown applies to mine, I don't have the MIL on at all, no strange noises & no smoke from the exhaust.

I'd seem a number posted in another topic I had found for the turbo control solenoid but the part number posted didn't bring any results on citroen service box when I put it in for my car, only being listed for the 1.6 hdi when I searched all vehicles.

One thing I didn't mention is that I have a good coating of oil on the back of the block but so far the car doesn't appear to be using any after ~600 miles & an oil change.

I've checked what vacuum piping I could find when I was doing the service last week & didn't find anything for concern but I'll have to have a better look over them incase I missed anything.

I'll hook up to Lexia again this afternoon one the new position sensor has been delivered, if it's like on PP2000 I shlould be able to test individual sensor iirc.

Thanks for the replies,

Graham.
ham_vts   
Thu Feb 26 2015, 03:56pm
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
All back together again, took about 45 minutes to refit the turbo position sensor & whilst doing so I found the turbo control solenoid you mentioned Dave along with inspecting the vacuum pipes as best I could, no splits found.

Most of it is plastic with just rubber for bends & connections to parts such as the turbo vacuum capsule & control solenoid.

I hooked my lexia up & got more time with it today as well, screenshots from the scan below.










I'll have a look at the error codes section soon when I have a little more time than tonight but I dug further into lexia & did the acuators test this afternoon too & they all worked, clicking when they should during testing.

I also took screen shots of the air inlet circuit & fuel circuit;






Can anyone see anything obvious from the screenshots above that I either don't understand or I'm missing?

Thanks,

Graham.
polestarboy   
Fri Feb 27 2015, 03:06pm
Member No: #33110
Joined: Nov 06 2013
Location: uk barnsley
Great post! I will be monitoring this one
ham_vts   
Sat Feb 28 2015, 03:36pm
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
Thanks, I'll post to update as I discover anything & what is the final fix..

I've just noticed something that does seem odd from the screenshots for error codes P0299 & P2562 above, flowmeter air temp -49°C.

Also, turbo electro valve open cycle ratio at 0%. Does this point to a dead turbo electro valve?

Graham.
ham_vts   
Sat Feb 28 2015, 04:11pm
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
OK, just don e some futher searches & it looks like from other topics I've found across various forums that the turbo electro valve open cycle ratio at 0% isn't such a problem but the flowmeter air temp could be a dead air temp sensor sensor.

I'll have to have a real serious look at all the vacuum pipes (yet again) as these do seem to be the major cause of this problem.

Graham.
ham_vts   
Mon Oct 12 2015, 08:51am
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
It hasn't taken long but round other life activities I've finally started to properly look into fixing this & the initial signs aren't good.

The car has run faultlessly (albeit without any oompff) since I got it, bar the previous owner who thought it a good idea to tack weld the stripped balljoint nut to the lower wishbone rather than spend the £90 to have it fixed properly.

Luckily it went at low speed with just me in the car or it could've been nasty.

Anyway, I've got a week off work to specifically sort the turbo issue out so I started stripping things out today.

I removed the intercooler inlet pipe & was greeted with oil running out of it, so far about 1/2l has drained out of the intercooler so I've stripped it all out for cleaning.

What is the rest position for the two vacuum controlled valves on the inlet manifold?

Mine are currently top valve open, lower vale closed. I've checked them with a vacuum gauge & they work, although the lower one doesn't seem to open fully but maybe I didn't get the vacuum pumped up enough.

I'm going to carry on removing the inlet air pipes now I've seen how it attaches to the turbo from the airbox & then take the EGR off for cleaning.

Graham.
ham_vts   
Tue Oct 13 2015, 04:28pm
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
Some more updates after today.

I got the EGR of yesterday along with the rest of the air inlet pipe.

I found the EGR had been blanked off with a solid plate which could partially explain the related error codes I was getting but it was far cleaner than I expected after seeing previous pictures of them but I'm cleaning it out with some oven brite cleaner & that's working pretty well so far.

I've now got the turbo about 85% off but clearly someone has tried getting it apart before (which I suspected previously), the turbo manifold stud nuts are both rounded off so a socket won't grab them.

I just hope the forward bolt isn't in a similar state or it'll be the whole manifold & turbo coming off.

Getting the pre-cat filter box off was certainly fun (my car has no DPF), the heat shield was already partially removed but once the downpipe & cat were removed it was easier to get to the clamp holding it to the turbo outlet.

I've also removed the vacuum capsule & position sensor, this seems to be in fine working condition, sucking on the pipe moves the diaphragm & output rod.

More fun tomorrow getting the turbo fully off.

Graham.
polestarboy   
Wed Oct 14 2015, 02:56pm
Member No: #33110
Joined: Nov 06 2013
Location: uk barnsley
I was going to say about the -49c, having just browsed on it again! Good luck,
P.S I wonder if it has had a re-map,or lacking a re-map regarding the EGR delete?
ham_vts   
Thu Oct 15 2015, 04:32am
Member No: #39342
Joined: Feb 17 2015
Location: Skipton, North Yorkshire
On we go, the manifold nuts didn't pose much of a problem once I'd rigged up a way to chisel through them but the forward turbo bolt was awkward as expected but just as I thought it was getting easier to turn & saw a glimmer of light to getting the turbo off, it sheared off.

The turbo is loose on the manifold but not coming out of the engine bay just yet.

Oh and now it's raining.

I don't believe it's had a remap (siemens ecu is hard to do) but until I get it working properly again I won't know.

Graham.
Dave_Retired.   
Thu Oct 15 2015, 05:37am

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
I don't believe it's had a remap (siemens ecu is hard to do) but until I get it working properly again I won't know.
[/quote1444905366]
All they do is dismantle it to add a new 'map'. It's not something for the amateur DIY mechanic though as you could 'fry' the electronics.....
Biohead   
Thu Oct 15 2015, 10:26am

Member No: #6049
Joined: Nov 05 2008
Location: Bracknell
I'm quite interested in the outcome of this, my VTS has suddenly lost all boost and showing turbo position copy sensor as the fault. Until I'm sorted with the house move it's just not a priority to fix.
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