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C4 - DS4 Owners :: Forums :: Coupe and Hatch Pre 2011 cars :: C4 The Garage

C4 1.6 HDi clutch replacement

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evanwr   
Sun Sep 30 2012, 02:23am
Member No: #14515
Joined: Jul 09 2010
Location: Australia
Please disregard my above question and I apologise for cutting into your post with a "left field" question. The truth is I missed the second page and thought that you had finished the post some time ago at clutch out. As such I considered it ok to come in with a different question.
EvanR
Zedd   
Tue Oct 02 2012, 09:06am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
evanwr wrote ...

This was an excellent post, full of real info. I have a question as to the height of the car on stands required to get clearance when you drop the engine assembly. As you are removing bumper, front panel, structual member and radiator panel - am I right in thinking that clearance of the top of the engine and the bodywork is not an issue when you drag the engine out because it will pass through the gap created by the removal of the front bodywork etc.
This seems like a dopey question, however I have only ever removed engines out the top and the thought of dropping them fills me with apprehension
Regards EvanR

Good day Evanwr

I myself have also worked only from the top, but I must add with a little bit of experience it almost seems like it might be easier from the bottom, but guess that would depend from person to person.


I have not removed the front of the vehicle, all was intact, air con, radiator bumper, etc even though I only removed and refitted the gearbox I found the height in the pics below to be very comfortable, plenty of space here to get in at the bottom and top of the vehicle. It is approximately 400mm where the trestles are in position.
Even though I only took off the gearbox I can see that it will be possible to
take the engine out this way as well.

Kind regards

Zedd





Zedd   
Wed Oct 03 2012, 03:28am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
evanwr wrote ...

Please disregard my above question and I apologise for cutting into your post with a "left field" question. The truth is I missed the second page and thought that you had finished the post some time ago at clutch out. As such I considered it ok to come in with a different question.
EvanR

No Prob EvanWR

I myself, have also missed your message here.
Zedd   
Wed Oct 03 2012, 04:10am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
I have an update to my clutch replacement. Having already refitted the gearbox as in the pics of the car on trestles above.

Unfortunately during refitting the clutch slave cylinder started to leak.

I tried to get a new seal, as it had hardened, but it comes as a complete assembly that I had to have ordered.
Should have delivery from Citroen before the weekend.

Here are some pics and guides.


Firstly fit the DMF and use new bolts and torque as suggested by GMERRY page 2.

In addition, these parts and brake disks and drums are usually coated with some "ghunk" to prevent them from rusting.

As a old hand in messing around with vehicles, I have learnt, great care must be taken to keep these clean and free from any foreign materials coatings etc.

Don't even leave a finger print if you can avoid it.

I use clean alcohol or paint thinners to wipe the DMF or flywheel clutch and pressure plate. Doing so has never left me with a clutch judder.











I ran into some problems when fitting the gearbox, every time I tried to align the gearbox spline shaft (spigot) into the clutch plate the release bearing fork moved, or even unclipped off the ball joint and the release bearing fell out of position.










After about four attempts at inserting the gearbox, I decided to compensate for any movement and sort of "lock" it temporarily into place using some "contact adhesive and a cloth behind the fork.













After this the gearbox just slid into position without the slightest problem and once bolted to the engine the cloth was removed.

The fork can then be moved and stays in position along with the release bearing.


I don't have a lathe, so I couldn't turn out a decent centering or alignment tool for the clutch plate. Also there is not one of those plastic ones in the kit that is sometimes supplied with LUK kits.

I just compensated using a tube spanner. Worked pretty well.






Oh and don't forget to grease the spigot shaft and release gearing fork ball joint before assembly.


Cheers everyone


Zedd
1 User said Thank You to Zedd for this Post :
 BigJohnD (16 Oct 2012 : 04:57)
Zedd   
Tue Oct 16 2012, 04:33am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
Hello everyone

I still haven't managed to finish my project, first I waited 2 weeks for a clutch kit, then another two for a new clutch slave cylinder, and just recently received new water and boost vacuum hoses.

My old ones were brittle so when I tried to take them off they broke, had to order new ones, another two weeks.

Because it is taking me so long to complete I am now forgetting where everything goes.

Here is a part that I cannot identify, anyone got any clues? I have rechecked everything over and over but cannot remember.







I will find any comments very valuable at this stage.

Kind regards

Zedd
barrie   
Tue Oct 16 2012, 09:03am
Without seeing the car, To me it looks like a gear change swivel,

Can you select all the gears ?

Barrie
Zedd   
Tue Oct 16 2012, 11:57am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
That's what I thought, but the selection is fine. I'm wondering if it isn't from another vehicle and somehow got mixed in with the C4 parts.

I had some friends over, a while back working on their old 230 Merc.

Think I'll leave it out for now, see if the car runs without it.

Thanks

Zedd
Zedd   
Wed Oct 24 2012, 05:06am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
Hello All

A further update, think I've made additional work for myself, again.
I now have an engine that cranks but will not start.
After reading some posts including Dave's on the crank shaft sensors, there exists, most probably, a speed sensor that monitors the flywheel (DMF).
I have not been able to work or check because of all the thunder storms we have been having, but decided to post anyway.

I failed to mark the flywheel because I didn't notice any marks or senders (magnets) etc on it.
I also noted that it can go on any way, there are six symetrical holes, that bolt it to the crank shaft, so it can go in six different ways.
This made me think if it had to be aligned somehow they would have installed a key way etc.

My question here for the professionals is, should the DMF be aligned back onto the crank shaft and if so, how?
I presume the front must be pinned as normal, but the rest I couldn't find any information on.
If alignment of flywheel is necessary, I'll have to take the gearbox out for the 5th time, getting really fast at it now.

Will appreciate any comments.

Kind regards

Zedd
Dave_Retired.   
Wed Oct 24 2012, 07:09am

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
Al I can suggest is downloading the zip with all the gearbox parts and repair guides and see if there is anything in there: - Click Here -
Zedd   
Wed Oct 24 2012, 09:15am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
C6 Dave wrote ...

Al I can suggest is downloading the zip with all the gearbox parts and repair guides and see if there is anything in there: - Click Here -


Many thanks Dave

Looks like, nothing here, I'm afraid. Only a magnet at the bottom of the gearbox on the inside, that looks more like a "loose iron particle capture" device. But I could be wrong.

Read somewhere that the speed sensor calculates the speed by counting the teeth on the flywheel, as they move past it. These rotate within the recess of the engine side and not in the clutch housing side, and that should tell me that the sensor be on the engine side. That is if the C4 works the same as other French vehicles.

I may be asking too much, but you wouldn't be able to point me to a zipped version of the sub assembly with DMF, as in this gearbox one?

Here is really a wealth of information for someone requiring to recondition a gearbox. Im sure the link will be very useful in future.

Kind regards

Zedd


Dave_Retired.   
Wed Oct 24 2012, 10:29am

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
I'll have to take a look and see what I can find later
1 User said Thank You to Dave_Retired. for this Post :
 Zedd (24 Oct 2012 : 10:42)
Zedd   
Thu Nov 15 2012, 12:18am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
Zedd wrote ...

Hello All

A further update, think I've made additional work for myself, again.

I now have an engine that cranks but will not start.

After reading some posts including Dave's on the crank shaft sensors, there exists, most probably, a speed sensor that monitors the flywheel (DMF).

I have not been able to work or check because of all the thunder storms we have been having, but decided to post anyway.

I failed to mark the flywheel because I didn't notice any marks or senders (magnets) etc on it.

I also noted that it can go on any way, there are six symetrical holes, that bolt it to the crank shaft, so it can go in six different ways.

This made me think if it had to be aligned somehow they would have installed a key way etc.

My question here for the professionals is, should the DMF be aligned back onto the crank shaft and if so, how?

I presume the front must be pinned as normal, but the rest I couldn't find any information on.

If alignment of flywheel is necessary, I'll have to take the gearbox out for the 5th time, getting really fast at it now.

Will appreciate any comments.

Kind regards

Zedd




Thought I'll update this thread.
There are no speed sensors around the clutch housing, this is done on some other French vehicles, but not on the C4 1.6 HDI, which only have one on the front crank pulley.
The DMF can be fitted in any of the six positions, because it has six holes evenly spaced from DMF to crank shaft.

After replacing the clutch and refitting the gearbox, the engine would crank but not start, after checking and cleaning all the connectors (with contact spray) and checking the fuel system and could not find anything wrong, I purchased the Maxiscan MS300.
The car stood for 3 weeks more while waiting for delivery.

Eventually it arrived, plugged it in and it immediately gave me P0193 (Fuel rail pressure sensor circuit high input)

Very difficult to see the sensor or even feel for it, it lives above the starter below the EGR pipe and behind some coolant hoses.

Eventually after I managed to expose it I saw there was no connector in it, it had fallen out.

Plugged it in and it starts now.

Cleared all the codes did rescan and there are no fault codes.

But as it starts the ESP ABS faulty comes up on the diagnostic within about 4 seconds of running. Do another rescan and no codes are generated.

BSI reset, - no change.

Going to run the car this weekend, perhaps it needs to feel the road after about three months of standing.

Cheers, patience is key!!

Zedd
Dave_Retired.   
Thu Nov 15 2012, 01:18am

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
All that work and 1 loose connector stops the car starting.....

You have the patience of a saint.
Zedd   
Tue Nov 20 2012, 12:02am
Member No: #19214
Joined: Apr 11 2011
Location: Harties South Africa
Success

Seems I broke an ABS sensor when I took the gearbox and the side shaft out.
That in turn caused the ESP, ASR, ABS fault.

Fairly cheap bought another.

Car runs without problems, no judder, engine smooth no errors or codes.

Conclusion:

I will have no problem doing another clutch or gearbox job "DIY" it will certainly save much "dosh"

you can resurface a DMF and it works, costs hardly anything.

I thought I might have some balancing issues, through the damage chips, mentioned earlier in this thread, but everything works great.....

Saying that though, I still have to prove it will last some 1000's miles/km.

Really not a difficult job, just time consuming and small hands will work much better.

Good luck for those who attempt this DIY!

Cheers

Zedd
Dave_Retired.   
Mon Feb 24 2014, 05:40am

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
Just to add, for everyone there is a downloadable version of this which you can print off at home - Click Here -
1 User said Thank You to Dave_Retired. for this Post :
 Beanderb4 (17 Aug 2017 : 17:30)
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