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FrankBullitt
 
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    Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
Three months in to C4 Picasso Ownership and I thought it was worth writing a User Report. Some background. The reason for choosing a C4 Picasso was that Mrs FB wanted an MPV, I wanted a larger family car (C5 size) to replace her Audi A2 1.6FSI and while she hated driving larger cars, I didn’t mind driving a people carrier; this is her car first and foremost. However, the C4 Picasso was the obvious choice as we both like the styling, the huge windscreen and they were in budget. Having sold the A2 private we took a few weeks to find the right Picasso – I would have loved Exclusive spec but didn’t want the EGS gearbox for future reliability concerns so this meant VTR+ only. We used to own (and still miss) two smart cars so the principles of the EGS are not an issue for us, but too many horror stories on a car we intend to keep 5 years at least so a manual it had to be. We saw a few that looked like they’d had a hard life (mostly ex-motability ones) but in the end found a 2009 ‘58’ 1.6HDI VTR+ Manual in Icare with just under 29,000 miles on the clock. It was sold as a non Citroen Select car from a Citroen dealer (it still had most of the third year of warranty on it) with a pristine history (services at 12K and 24.5K, PDI all filled out properly) and some bodywork issues they sorted as part of the deal, plus replacing a barely legal tyre. I won’t name the East Anglian dealer but wouldn’t recommend them anyway and we won’t be back for servicing – it took a strong letter to the Dealer Principal in order to get an agreed delivery date with the sales manager (who sold us the car) refusing to return my calls, emails and so-on, and with them being 50 miles away door-stepping wasn’t an option. The car delivered, Mrs FB has been driving it 90% of the time – apart from a quick spin to the gym and into some countryside to take some piccies I didn’t drive it for about 2 weeks so forming a personal opinion has been hard, but having just returned from our family holiday in France I feel better able to do so now. It’s worth saying she is utterly smitten with the car and loves it to bits which is all that really matters and our 2 year old son, FB Junior, loves ‘Pablo’ too! I drive my Audi A2 TDI, our former family car, on a daily basis which works for me, and I’ll keep that car until the day I (or it) die. To add to the awful dealer experience, there are some things I don’t like about the car – the cheap indicator sound is horrid, some interior design doesn’t work for me and the 110bhp engine is definitely towards the edge of its performance envelope. The interior bits that don’t work for me I have been able to narrow down to one specific issue – namely the lower glovebox. We have two perfectly usable ones on the dash, this lower one merely restricts legroom if FB Junior (in his isofix seat) is reclined taking a nap behind me; I’d rather there was no lower glovebox and a scallop similar to the drivers side. I appreciate this won’t affect most people, but I am 6’4”. We find putting him in the centre works best, which he can do with the full-width isofix’ed’ seat, but this does restrict flexibility when full of camping gear. A minor gripe, to be honest, no doubt related to my height. Ah, the space. Other than the glovebox issue the car is huge inside and well-designed; it swallows all our camping gear with ease and just returned from a static caravan holiday in France stacked with all our stuff and some cheap alcohol (20 bottles of Leffe at €9.60 – bargain of the decade). The interior flexibility is hugely impressive and the driving position over long distances is very comfortable indeed. FB Junior only slept once on the way down, using the panoramic screen and ‘on the throne’ seating position to shout out every Car Transporter, Tanker, ‘Pablo’, ‘Grande Pablo’ (he can spot the difference from the front due to the roof rails...seriously!), Fiat 500, Bettle, MINI, camper van etc. he absolutely loves it, and that is what family motoring is all about. We met up with friends out there who came in their Fiat 500 so Pablo was called into duty for driving and four adults plus FB Junior fitted with complete ease. Behind the wheel, I would imagine any Xsara Picasso 110bhp HDI owners upgrading to a C4 Picasso would wonder where about 30bhp went, but a quick check of the brochure makes it all clear; at nearly 1500kg it’s a hefty beast and some 250kg heavier than a Xsara Picasso. No doubt this makes the car safe, and it certainly feels it, but it does appear to be rather a lot. On a few occasions we have found ourselves below the turbo threshold (about 1200rpm) at which point there is absolutely nothing; it makes an interesting contrast to my PD-engined A2 which pulls like a train even from idle, and did so before I had it remapped; the Common Rail HDI is much smoother though. The power delivery is smooth, there is no apparent rush of turbo boost but you sure know when you’ve dropped below the operating zone! I find the wheel over-burdened and can’t really understand why the recirculation button is on there, for example, but to go back through a CD requires a reach to the stereo. It is clever though. On our holiday, Mrs FB did the UK stint (130 miles) and I did France (230 miles to Normandy) and the car was fine at an indicated 123km/h (119km/h according to Sat nav) for most of the journey although some hills did show up that heft again, I’m not sure a 6th gear would suit this car unless it was only a little taller than 5th and my initial scepticism on the 2011 model year having this has also been allayed by seeing this new 8v engine has 210lb/ft of torque compared to the 177lb/ft in the 16v engine; I notice even the face lifted 308 still doesn’t have the 210lb/ft version so perhaps the C4 Picasso will take all the supply until production can be ramped-up; either way, if we buy another I’d still be tempted by the now-introduced 2.0HDI 150 manual in Exclusive specification of course. I hate to wonder how a 1.6/ 1.8 petrol engine goes! Economy wise, we have experience 43mpg overall (although brimming the tank is impossible so this is a rough approximation) with the same figure cruising through France although we did get 49mpg on a camping trip to the Peak District with relative ease – still, the A2 FSI did 38mpg at best and needed 98RON so this is cheaper to fuel, especially with French diesel being €1.29 a litre at our local ‘U’, we use the Tesco 5p per litre offer most of the time in the UK. Ride-wise, the car is brilliant; we use 2.4 bar all round on the Michelin tyres and it soaks up everything the UK could throw at it; in France we uppsed this to 3.1/ 2.9 bar which was great loaded, but rather firm with only three on-board. The downside is the car definitely doesn’t handle’ as such, just gets to where you point it; the steering is lifeless and it remind me of my old PS2 steering wheel playing Grand Tourismo. The gearbox is slick enough although 1 time out of 10 it won’t get reverse despite feeling that it’s in; the cogs grating soon give the game away, it’s obviously not matching the cogs occasionally. We have suffered the asthmatic ventilation system a few times now and will turn the A/C off for ten minutes each time this happens; it’s a pain but so long as this fixes it then that’s not really an issue. Otherwise it’s a good system and the controls are clear and simple except to note stabbing the direction button 10 times to get the combination you want should be simpler. Three buttons (screen, face and feet) work perfectly in my A2. The automatic brake is brilliant and clever but why does it have to sound like Edward Scissorhands is replacing the exhaust every time it goes on (in particular) and off. The downside is Mrs FB has now left the hand brake off twice in my A2...luckily realising before it was an issue. We want to get a caravan in the future and I am concerned the 110bhp engine may not be up to towing a 1200-ish kg outfit but guess that sitting at 60mph in 5th gear and dropping down to 4th for any notable incline would be OK. We are on the look-out for a suitable ‘van and will no doubt do more research on the full towing kit required (with the ESP connector, of course). I like to look after my cars and it’s disappointing this one seems to have been cleaned by ‘The Illigals’ for all its life – the paint was flat and has little sparkle. I’m currently giving it a full polish at alternate washes with Zymol and this seems to be bringing it back; it’ll take a while but I will get there. Other than buying, my only interaction with the dealer network was to get a spare bulb kit, finding Duxford Citroen really friendly and helpful (parts people always are – they should get them to teach sales and service how to deal with people). Also, I have some quotes for the upcoming, and expensive, 37,500 mile service; I’m amazed that Citroen charge more than Audi for a full service to be honest, and with the price of Michelin Primacy Tyres I’m not sure the C4 will be a cheap car to run; luckily, when it’s out of warranty I’ll take it to Chevronics in Hitchin which is only a half-hour drive. I suppose the real sign whether a car works for you is does it improve how you travel in some way, and the C4 Picasso does; it rides well, which a family car always should, is safe, spacious, comfortable, economical, quick enough and generally makes holidays specifically work well for us. Mrs FB loves the car; she wasn’t too keen on ‘A Citroen’ at first but more than happy with the Picasso. It is a bit of overkill for a family with one child but I don’t think that’s worth worrying about at all and on occasions we need to carry a huge load or need more space it works. We hope to keep the car a few years yet, we’ll do about 12,000 miles a year in it with Mrs FB commuting into the centre of Cambridge one/ two days a week, weekend use and holidays. Pablo’s first polish:  Pablo sat alongside our holiday caravan in France  Pablo visiting the commemorative stone located where my Grandfather and his colleagues landed shortly after D-Day  Mrs FB, FB Junior and Pablo: 
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Dave_Retired.
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  Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006Location: Northumberland |
Thanks for a very interesting and informative review 
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sjamais
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Thanks, I personally think the 2011 1.6 e-HDi is plenty for the car (in the heavier Excl trim), I think it is the 8-valve one which might well have a flatter torque curve. This being said acceleration below 1250 rpm isn't mindblowing, but it wakes up shortly afterward and I think beats what my Xsara could do. Is anyone getting anywhere near the quoted combined mpg on their C4GP? I used to be able to meet or beat it (not often) on the Xsara. |
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routemaster1
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 Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007Location: Dorset |
sjamais wrote ... acceleration below 1250 rpm isn't mindblowing, but it wakes up shortly afterward This is simply because the turbo isn't doing anything, then at ~1500rpm the turbo spools up. |
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FrankBullitt
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Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
sjamais wrote ... Thanks, Is anyone getting anywhere near the quoted combined mpg on their C4GP? I used to be able to meet or beat it (not often) on the Xsara. I doubt anyone will unless they drive like a nun. The economy cycle is a given set of parameters and car manufacturers develop their products to give the best figures for this as a) it's marketing and b) it's taxation based. Ever wondered quite how so many cars miraculously had 119g/km CO2 emissions (emissions and economy are, inherently, linked)? Because of the VED banding and company car taxation. In 2012 (I think, could be 2013) the 15% (18% rate for diesel) will be for cars under 114g/km; scout around through a car mag and wonder at how many cars that have been 119g/km for a few years have had some minor changes and now sit at 114g/km, and more will follow. Just becuase they perform well in the cycle doesn't mean they will in the real world, even more of an issue now than the old unrealistic constant 56 and 75mph tests. BMW admit as much with their new i8 which has stats along the lines of 120mpg and 60(ish) g/km suggesting nobody will ever get that in the real world where 40mpg is more realistic - it's been engineered for the cycle. Stop-start is the easiest way to sque the stats - it inflates the average mpg (and CO2) based upon a significant amount of urban driving; if you rarely go into town it's utterly irrelevant. Of course, if you do then it is! A friend of a friend used to have one of those Astra Eco's with the 1.7CTD engine and it regularly got 70mpg+ the way he drove it; exchanged for a Mk2 Pious he could only manage 50mpg tops because, when on the motorway, rather than cruising at 70mph and ticking over at low revs like the Astra his Pious needed abusing to keep up with traffic! I reckon 43mpg from our car is fairly reasonable - I'd have liked 45mpg to be honest, but it's more economical than my old 1999 Punto 60S (40mpg...petrol...860kg-ish). One thing I forgot to mention above was the eco mode is entirely unfathomnable and is a right pain in the backside; I have no idea how it decided to go into eco mode, sometime first thing on a morning when the car hasn't been run, at others after a long journey... I get the point, it just seems to be completely irregular. |
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routemaster1
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Member No: #574
Joined: Jul 08 2007Location: Dorset |
FrankBullitt wrote ... Ever wondered quite how so many cars miraculously had 119g/km CO2 emissions (emissions and economy are, inherently, linked)? The numbers obtained for mpg are now done on the rolling road under standard laboratory conditions. Fuel consumption is not actually measured, carbon dioxide output is. The mpg is calculated from the carbon dioxide output as there is a direct correlation. |
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FrankBullitt
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Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
A minor update. As it was my parents 40th Wedding Anniversary, we spent last weekend in the North East (near Saltburn for those familiar with the area), via the A1 and A19, then on Saturday picking up my grandparents who live near Pickering. Mrs FB did much of the two-lane stuff whilst I did the driving over the North Yorks Moors. The economy of the car is slowly increasing, like others I have trip 2 set for the overall economy across a number of tanks and it's now showing 44mpg, psychologically if it got to 45mpg I'd consider that to be great. On the journey up the economy was showing at 48-ish mpg (the car had been used for a trip to Leicester and back on the same tank) which in Friday afternoon traffic where HGV's provided a continuous 'balk' wasn't too bad at all. On the return journey, the average speed was 67mph (!) and the economy 44.7mpg, but Mrs FB drove the whole of that leg so a reduced economy is not unexpected... Over the Moors I was very impressed with the cars performance, there is a small amount of dual carriageway near my parents up a steep hill which is the last chance to overtake for a while; as a kid in our 652cc Visa it was always us sitting on the inside lane but the HDI 110 was happy to be given some legs, and it coped with a sharp bend on the hill admirably, although Mrs FB said her piece from the passengers seat; maintaining momentum was fine. It coped well with the multiple hills near Fylindales and was more than happy keeping up with traffic and dispatching with dawdlers; only on a long incline above Sleights did it struggle a bit; maintaining 60 in top, but needed a change down for any acceleration at all. Again, carrying four adults and FB Junior in his isofix seat was perfectly easy and comfortable; my Grandad has a C3 1.1 Desire (turgid) and was amazed the C4P is a Citroen; at 88 years old he found it comfy, likewise getting in and out was a relative cinch. On the return journey we followed, then overtook, an exact copy of Pablo in Icare just outside of Elkersly on the A1 - Icare VTR+ C4P's seem to be very rare compared to C4GP's, be they Exclusive or VTR+'s. It's a lovely colour, but has suffered from not looking very tidy a few days after being polished. So far I have used Zymol, which brings my silver A2 out stunning, but was never much cop on our other A2 (a silver-blue colour). After trying Meguars (seemingly favoured by people who inappropriately use the word 'detailing' when talking about a wash and polish) it was no better. So this weekend I had a good go with my Autoglym collection and can immediately see it is so much better, even after some rain the paint looks pristine; I'll give it a polish on alternate washes and hopefully that will bring the colour to life. The car continues to fit into our lives very well, some days I fancy the EGS as I think it's natural lope (with a slightly taller top gear) is at higher speeds than the manual, and I suspect economy would be a little better too, but then I read each fresh post on this forum that comes from somebody with an EGS car and am grateful for the manual 'box; I see manual cars still seem to retail at £500-£1000 more than EGS models. Mrs FB is still smitten, and we are off to the Caravan show this weekend at the NEC - I doubt we'll come back with a caravan on order, but it will give us some food for thought over the coming months about how we will use her redundancy on a second hand 'van when she eventually looses her job next year. Before that, the car will be serviced - it's only done 8500 miles since the last service but I'll make sure there is fresh oil in there every 12 months at the most. Time to put some more work into those quotes I got a while back. Downsides? We've noticed the drivers seat has the much commented on collapse of the base's side bolster, so I'll be pushing for this at service time as the car is still in warranty. Also, the brake pads leave a mess on the wheels within days of being cleaned; I'm hoping they will last to the 50K service but they look comfortably more than 50% worn front and rear so might have to replace them soon. My sisters fiance used to work for a main dealer network and reckons PSA pads are 'rubbish' so I might look for non OEM parts. |
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trev h
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 Member No: #10864
Joined: Sep 11 2009Location: kent/se london |
Bit off topic here but for anyone who doesn't know, when buying a caravan from a show such as the NEC when you go onto the caravan makers stand & speak to that nice salesperson be careful, what they don't tell you is that the sales people are normally selected dealers from various parts of the country who have been invited by the makers to staff their stand, this means if you live in the north of the country you could be buying a van from a dealer in the south & vice versa, causes a lot of bad feeling when it comes to light, some dealers get very "funny" when it comes to doing warranty work on a van that wasn't bought from them. | ||||
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FrankBullitt
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Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
Another update. Pablo has just been for 'his' 37,500 mile service at 35,000 miles; it was 12 months to the day he last had some fresh oil so thought we might as well get it done. I know the intervals are 12,500 miles or 2 years, but we'll be making sure there is fresh oil in the sump every 12 months at the longest. After getting varying quotes, we eventually decided to go with Duxford Service Station; not the cheapest, their Service Advisor, Martin, was happy to talk through the options, what they do and how they do it, his personable approach won the day and he dropped the price a little to compete with another local Citroen dealer. As the brake fluid change hadn't been done before and no evidence of an air conditioning service, we had those added too with the total quote being £420; not too bad although perhaps more than I should expect for a Citroen, and a bit less as they'd offered us an older courtesy car rather than the £15 fuelled option. In addition, Mrs FB popped in a few weeks back with our broken seat bolster and Martin took some pictures and promised to follow the claim up; after much too-ing and fro-ing, we received confirmation on Monday the part was to be replaced; I get the strong feeling warranty claims are dependant upon the dealer fighting your corner and putting the case across, a 'lasse fair' dealer will likely get nowhere. Mrs FB dropped the car off and was loaned a 61 plate Mitsubishi Colt (they are also a Mitsubishi agent) which I think she was glad to give back! The work was completed on-time and once again Martin took my wife through the invoice and everything they had done, including replacing some mounts on the air box they'd noticed were looking a bit worn and would eventually cause a distracting vibration noise; nice attention to detail. The seat base was replaced (and feels lovely), the invoice for the part being £400!!! It was clearly damaged by the previous owner (not blaming them...it's clearly a design issue) so it's nice to have a bolster that...erm...exists and of course it is my own fault for not spotting this when we bought it  The service came in less than we expected so Mrs FB, being a lady, decided to spend the difference on an air freshener rather than not spend it at all. The car was cleaned outside and a comprehensive pack of information was left with us. Over the past 4,500 miles it has averaged 44.7mpg on the second trip which is pretty-much what I expected to be honest, so I have re-set this to see what we get over the next 6,000-ish. Drove the car last night and it did feel slightly different, a bit smoother, possibly the placebo effect, possibly the air-box mounts, but definately smoother. Needless to say, I am impressed with Duxford Service Station especially as Mrs FB, like many women, feels she is treat like an idiot by garages but came away thoroughy happy and feeling like she'd had a good experience; I am sure they treat Pablo with equal respect. They advised us there is 20% left on the front and rear pads so we'll book this to be done in the New Year at the same time as the MOT, with no pressure to replace them now; I did think they are probably at the end of their natural life so about 40K from a set isn't too bad - we'll hopefully get more from the next ones (my A2 had new discs and pads at 50K, it now has 78K on the clock and they are 10% worn - the last ones were done as the discs corroded!) Really enjoying the family bus, it fits into our life so-well; unless we come into money one day, I can see Pablo being a bit of a keeper. Oh, and in case you are wondering, Mrs FB did leave the handbrake off in the Colt when she got to work but realised before getting out of the car! |
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Dave_Retired.
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Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006Location: Northumberland |
Keep an eye out for any changes to the Citroen Servicing offer on Brake Pads as it may end - Click Here - Might be worth getting it done pre Xmas to save some money Cheaper to DIY though if you can. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #11625
Joined: Nov 30 2009Location: aberdeen |
Frank OK DIY servicing may not be your thing but when it comes to brakes, a bit of common sense and using good quality components, you can do a better job at home for a small proportion of what the dealer will charge you. As an aside, the spotty youth at the local Citroen dealer almost put my wife and daughter in hospital as the brake pads came flying out at the bottom of the hill after a scheduled service and brake overhaul. So now I do this myself!. Regards G |
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FrankBullitt
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Member No: #19238
Joined: Apr 12 2011Location: Cambridgeshire |
Never done it before to be honest, but I must be able to grab a suitably capable friend to help me out - decent pads must be £70 for the four wheels? | ||||
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PentlandC4
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 Member No: #13613
Joined: May 08 2010Location: Deepest Wiltshire |
I take it the DIY advice is for pads and not disc replacement? My C4 will be looking for new rear discs in the next month or two... | ||||
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BigJohnD
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 Member No: #82
Joined: Jan 22 2007Location: Hoylake |
PentlandC4 wrote ... My C4 will be looking for new rear discs in the next month or two... Barrie and I did my rear discs and pads some time ago. Details here: - Click Here - and here: - Click Here - You need your VIN to be sure which parts you need. |
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gmerry
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Member No: #11625
Joined: Nov 30 2009Location: aberdeen |
Pentland, I did the full rear brake rebuild last week so will post some notes and a few photos soon. The rebuild included calipers, brake hoses, disks, pads. The rear brakes are now much better than when it left the factory! I realise now we have had problems with the rear calipers for last 5+ years and I was conned into paying for new disks and pads when the car was only 2 years old. Regards G |
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