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Turbo Wailing

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Turboformance   
Tue Aug 31 2010, 03:15AM
Greetings

We are a Diesel Turbo Specialist workshop in South Africa.

The Citroen C4 1.6 HDi turbo has been replaced last year November because of the Turbo Wailing like a police siren.
The car came back last week with the same noise to the turbo, so I took the turbo off to inspect to find
that the Turbine blades ( hot side ) have been damaged from foreign object from the engine. The foreign object
hit it out of balance so that's why it sounds like a police siren. A Citroen specialist says it can be carbon build up in the engine that can cause this? The engine still runs smooth with no problems.

I will insert some pics to show this.

We have fitted a new turbo and the car seems to be fine, no probs.

Any advice?





BigJohnD   
Tue Aug 31 2010, 03:44AM

Member No: #82
Joined: Jan 22 2007
Location: Hoylake
Welcome to C4Owners, Turboformance.

Thanks for posting the photo of the damaged turbo blades.
Phil   
Tue Aug 31 2010, 03:52AM

Member No: #406
Joined: Jun 16 2007
Location: Stafford
There are big problems with poor oil change routines on 1.6HDi's causing oil clogging in cylinder head galleries, turbo supply lubrication pipes etc which is the cause for repeated turbo failure.

When replacing a failed turbo it is imperitive to replace the oil supply/return pipes. You also need to remove the sump and check the gauze on on the pump for any blockages.

Finally a good check so see if there is serious internal blockages, remove the brake vacuum pump - there's a little gauze inside that. If that has signs of blockage then you've got some serious internal clogging going on.

We've had a brand new turbo literally fail within 100 mile from the impellor seizing up and the nut which secures it on the shaft coming undone and wedging in the fan blades. This particular one was an extreme case and ended up having a new engine!
Web Admin Only   
Tue Aug 31 2010, 04:09AM

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
Is all the carbon build up due to poor oil quality?

The HDi's require a ' Low Saps' oil
Theres an ongoing thread here on oil: - Click Here -

gmerry wrote ...

The thing to realise if using a forum such as this for information, is that just like Wikipedia, because it's posted does not necessarily make it true. For example, buying an oil just on SAE viscosity rating is a recipe for problems: the industry in Europe (ie ACEA) stopped using this other than as a marketing label years ago. The nastry end of the lubricant blenders/marketers can use some pretty cheap base stocks, throw in some polymers and the viscosity ranges (SAE variety) will look fine on the can. Might not last very long in the engine though.

There is a good presentation on Southern Lubricants website by Total explaining the thinking behind ACEA service fill specifications for PSA FAP equipped diesels like our 2.7HDis

- Click Here -

In the Lube Library under Total open the presentation named Low Saps details

Look at the photo of the fouled EGR valve when using a normal non " low SAPS" oil.





Regards

BigJohnD   
Tue Aug 31 2010, 06:46AM

Member No: #82
Joined: Jan 22 2007
Location: Hoylake
SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulphur
Jaff   
Tue Aug 31 2010, 02:36PM
same thing happens on ford, look up ford TSB 46/2008 it details what ford tell you to do wiht the same engine and turbo, as phil says you need to replace like every oil line on the engine, replace every filter then you need to flush the engine a few time and iirc replace the oil 2 twice, if it fails again then a new engine is required, we do this fairly regularly. Its unfortunalty an inherent problem with the 110 bhp ( havent done a 90bhp one yet) version of ths HDi/TDCi engine. These need their oil maintained alot, they need to be done bang on 12.5k and not any higher than 13.5k and if you do alot of town driving or short low speed journeys an even very low miles, you should change it more frequently. We recommend every 6k.

TBH as a turbo diesel specialist i'm very suprised you havent heard of this.
bigstan   
Fri May 20 2011, 04:47PM
Member No: #18724
Joined: Mar 13 2011
Location: Runcorn
My 1.6 HDI VTR PLUS 2004 turbo has been whining for a while now (no smoke or any power loss, however) so whilst in a recent service at Citroen I got them to check it and it was reported there was 'slight' movement in the propeller.

They didn't advise it was serious, just that if I wanted to solve the whining I would need to change the turbo.

With this is mind, and to prevent a possible complete turbo failure, if I got it changed, would I just need to change the turbo, or would I need a pipes, oil, the lot replacing?

Also, is there any links available for advice on changing the turbo?
Web Admin Only   
Sat May 21 2011, 01:13AM

Member No: #1
Joined: Aug 07 2006
Location: Northumberland
Yes there is a guide on the replacement process here: - Click Here - but access is restricted to Premier Members.

If it hasn't failed and there is no damage then just changing the turbo and changing the oil and filter should suffice, though you'll get a better idea once it's off.

For suitable oils for your car: - Click Here -

IF the turbo needs replacing then: - Click Here -
 

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